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https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/popwood_logos-01.png, https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/4857aba4-14fa-4286-8417-e388d5b1c89b.jpeg, Shaker Storage & Shelving Shop Resources Collection, © 2020 Cruz Bay Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved. 2 coats Valspar 1420 clear lacquer sealer/undercoat. I suspect though, that I can never remove all traces of the original lacquer as it seems to have soaked into the veneer. As he put it, "they have no idea what is in the Sealcoat." Lacquer thinner kicks the shellac out of solution and you get little chunks that have to be manually removed (strip the gun and run a brush through the fluid passages). The confusion often comes from the fact that shellac comes from the lac beetle, but lacquer does not. If you’re finishing large objects such as a set of kitchen cabinets, it will speed your work. While the terms varnish, polyurethane, lacquer and shellac are commonly used to reference a final finish in general, these products are not the same, nor are they recommended to be used interchangeably. Just continue with the coats of lacquer right over the shellac. The term lacquer originates from the Sanskrit word lākshā (लाक्षा) representing the number 100,000, which was used for both the lac insect (because of their enormous number) and the scarlet resinous secretion, rich in shellac, that it produces that was used as … Sanding sealer powders when sanded, so it speeds production. Any liquid that turns to a solid, meaning any finish, will seal the wood. It doesn’t sand as easily as sanding sealer, though easier than alkyd varnish or lacquer. Yes, shellac is a great barrier coat and wash coat, lacquer works well over it. Valspar makes great stuff and it's used by the tanker car in high volume operations. Previously I was using Deft lacquer and never had a problem with application or customer satisfaction. Shellac is a versatile, non-toxic wood finish that enhances the natural grain while adding smoothness without the plastic-like qualities of polyurethane or lacquer. I have Minwax Paste Finishing Wax, would this work as well as the wax he used, or shall I purchase Renaissance Wax or similar? 2. The Woodwright’s Shop is back with Season 34! • Pre-Cat Lacquer is typically used on cabinetry and other high traffic areas where moisture resistance and durability are a concern because they cross-link after application becoming harder and more durable than nitrocellulose lacquers. Take control of finishing by learning how to use the many finishes available — and what those products actually are. 2 coats Seal Coat, sand between coats It finally worked and has not been a problem since. After seeing the cracking, sprayed with 50/50 mix of lacquer thinner and retarder, and the cracks melted in a bit, but were still there. Yes, this shouldn’t cause a problem, though I don’t know why you would do it. Or with aerosol cans. Catalyzed lacquers and catalyzed varnishes are NOT compatible with shellac.. Feature Articles, Shop Blog, Woodworking Blogs, Follow Friday: Nancy Hiller, Yoav Liberman, John Malecki and Brock Jurgensen, Free Woodworking Downloads From Lee Valley, I Can Do That! sand after 220 grit You might also consider using a different coloring agent. Lacquer can discolor over a … Shellac is my new favorite finish. When you're done spraying shellac, run some alcohol through the gun and then run some lacquer thinner through it. That'll get it ready to switch over to lacquer. Lack of compatibility is my favorite shellac myth. CLEAR OVER THE COLOURED SIDES AND BACK 27. back, 28. Save up to 68% on 7 issues of woodworking projects and tricks. In nearly 20 years of working with shellac – from flake and store-purchased – I ran into a problem once when I added a layer of lacquer over a coat of shellac. Additionally, the Sealcoat can says "guaranteed to work under any clear topcoat.". Finished as follows: Manufacturers use all sorts of names for their stearated sandpapers, just to make our lives harder. I am not familiar with Valspar, but it sounds like a sealer problem for sure - not a topcoat problem. Use their vinyl sealer for first coat and their high solids lacquer for all other coats. Be careful not to create runs, especially on the sides of acoustic guitars. Additionally, I have 0000 steel… I have a piece I am working on that is fairly old and the shellac is cracked all over. • To topcoat a spot repairs, apply the lacquer … Maybe it’s the name “sanding sealer,” with instructions to seal the wood with this product before continuing with the finish (usually lacquer or varnish). Upon return on 12/30, the job was full of cracks in the same and new areas. Hard for me to understand that. Re: possible to spray shellac over lacquer? 29. additional 30. Reassembled the cabinet on 12/22. Is it OK to apply a sanding sealer over a first coat of shellac? Lacquer is com… And it blocks odors, such as those from cat urine. – Simple Woodworking Projects. Logged This ain't some cake you're bakin', git-tar boy! What purpose does it serve? Switch to Mohawk lacquers. The blanket statements “you can use any topcoat over dewaxed shellac” and “shellac is a universal base coat” is a bit erroneous. I am now stripping and redoing, which the Valspar rep said to do, and not to use the SealCoat. I'd like to avoid a third episode with this cabinet. Sanding smooth will be easier before applying the topcoats of varnish or lacquer. Why I switched and will never go back. This happened three times all while I sanded the sealer further down to where I thought i would get to wood. Over time, the price of shellac has gone up, while other wood finishes have come down. March 29, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. I wish it worked great with other finishes. Apply a coat of Stringed Instrument Lacquer in even, wet, overlap- ping strokes. Shellac is a drying finish, like lacquer. I wouldn't put Shellac over the lacquer, it may be incompatible and lift the underlying lacquer and it will bubble and craze and then you will have a real mess and ruin the stain and the whole thing. The orange peel is a problem experienced when using a sprayer, not a brushing application. It makes for an absolute beautiful finish, and is easy to apply, usually done by rubbing it on, or by spraying. It is this high-gloss sheen that is often seen on the outside of drums. Other varnishes, such as polyurethane varnish, don’t gum up sandpaper, so they sand easily without the need of a sanding sealer. Comment from contributor E: Shellac also naturally dries to a high-gloss sheen, unlike lacquer which must be polished. Finish looked good, no cracks. In Flexner on Finishing, his first since Understanding Wood Finishing, Bob Flexner delves deeper into many of the issues woodworkers struggle with and he does it with an authority that leaves no doubt. The wood is already sealed with the shellac. Start So what is sanding sealer? Alkyd varnish and nitrocellulose lacquer gum up sandpaper when sanded. My own kitchen is almost 25 years old with Deft and still looks good, but I am having a hard time getting Deft anymore due to the AQMD restrictions. Minwax sells a decent one that is widely available. Lacquer generally holds the color of the wood it is placed on, while shellac comes in a variety of different colors. But, spray lacquer dries too fast to be brushed on. Shellac is not too far behind at one hour. Let it stand 10 days to harden, and when I went to buff, the surface was cracked in several corners (on a diagonal, not joint failure). According to the dealer, this is NC lacquer and can be built up. It’s just varnish or lacquer with zinc stearates added to make it powder when sanded. (Finishing Forum) Forum Responses Brushing lacquer is available also. However, it still has its place in a few niche markets, even though it isn’t as widely used as finishes such as Lacquer or Polyurethane. But it does other things as a sealer coat that you may want or need. Another common use for shellac today is on musical instruments. Whatever the reason, the term “sealing” is very simple to understand. The primer for Lacquer is sanding sealer. We may receive a commission from sales referred by our links; however, we have carefully selected these products for their usefulness and quality. This resin is harvested from the tree's sap and is then refined and mixed with lacquer thinner to create the common woodworking finish . Use lacquer sanding sealer and lacquer and forget about the shellac. Think of sanding sealer as a production tool. This allows finishers to control the drying rate of the finish to avoid blushing, and runs and sags. The very best way to apply lacquer is to spray it. Just continue with the coats of lacquer right over the shellac. The shellac will bond to any finish and any finish will bond to the wax free shellac so it is the perfect intermediate coat to make incompatible finishes compatible. According to Valspar, there is a 4 dry mil max, but calculating the solids percentage, it's marginal if it is over 4 mils. Shellac sealer, applied to the right half, blocks silicone oil so the lacquer doesn’t fish eye (left half). If my time is limited, then lacquer offers definite advantages since the typical drying time for the product is just 30 minutes, give or take the humidity levels in the air. Shellac has been used since the 1500s and was the most popular top coat until the 1960s. If you are talking about spraying lacquer over the polyurethane and the poly is well aged, you might be able to get away with it by spraying light well-thinned coats of the lacquer.The safest thing to do is to use dewaxed shellac over the poly and then you can go to the lacquer without worry. I came to find out that the sealer was several years old and that might have been the problem. Here are some supplies and tools we find essential in our everyday work around the shop. That being said, the area could be spot repaired with a fad via french polish and shellac without lacquer. Compatibility is no problem at all if you’re about to add shellac over an earlier coating. A more practical use for paste wax for today's modern woodworker is to use it over an existing polyurethane, varnish, shellac, or lacquer finish, to give a piece an unmatched luster and shine. 6 coats of a 20% solids paint, minus sanding loss, I figured was okay. However, each type of finish has a variety of pros and cons that you should consider to better determine which may be right for your application. The ravages of time and use of a piece of furniture can be limited by a durable top or finish coat. As it happens, regular alkyd varnish and nitrocellulose lacquer gum up sandpaper when sanded. It says right on the can not to put poly over the shellac but is it ok to put lacquer over it. Instead, lacquer is derived from the resin of a specific tree commonly referred to as a varnish tree. However, this does not impact our recommendations. You whip out the shellac (Seal-Coat) when you've got a compatibility issue or you need a decent color under waterborne finishes that without it look dead. Hello All, I recently watched PS's "Finishing with Shellac" video. Is it necessary to apply a lacquer sanding sealer over a coat of shellac to seal the wood? Everything was fine until the cat lacquer was applied and then after a week, the finish lifted at the layer of the sealer and the epoxy. Nitrocellulose Lacquer over shellac works just fine, as lacquer is acetone based and it does not hurt the shellac too badly, and will stick to the shellac as well. (In fact, sanding sealer will hinder the bond of polyurethane, so you shouldn’t use it.). After the shellac has dried overnight, then I will proceed to the lacquer finish. Maybe it’s due to so many editors and readers of Popular Woodworking saying that shellac is the “best” sealer. He intends to continue with topcoats of lacquer. So what you are really looking for is a simple wipe-on varnish to put over top of the shellac. Like shellac, lacquer dissolves itself, so sanding between coats is unnecessary. By applying a topcoat you can have a finished wood project that lasts for a long time to come. So similarly, it is easier to repair, though less durable than other finishes. I had a nightmare of a time when I applied Zinsser sealer to a marquetry panel, sanded it for adhesion purposes, and then applied a West System epoxy over that. Lacquer, Varnish, Shellac, Conversion Varnish, and Polyurethane all serve to protect a wood product from water, heat, and other spills. Then I sanded down heavily (broke through in a few places), resprayed 1 coat of gloss topcoat. Bob Flexner is the author of "Flexner on Finishing," "Wood Finishing 101," and "Understanding Wood Finishing.". It also blocks wax that is sometimes added to paint strippers and will cause finish bonding problems if you don’t get it all removed. This means it has less appeal than it once did. An easier way to address these issues is to do minimal sanding to smooth out any obvious blemishes, spray the guitar with shellac, and apply a new finish once the shellac has dried. But on smaller objects you could just use the finish as the sealer coat. The original lacquer is rather beat up and scratched, also has crazing in places. These stearates are also added to some sandpapers to make them sand easier without gumming up. Because of the similarity of the names, lacquer is often confused with shellac. New shellac can slightly dissolve the previous layer and create a seamless finish. I can apply shellac over paint and then apply lacquer over the shellac without the risk of damaging the finish. You can choose from polyurethane, lacquer, shellac, or even varnish. Lacquer is much more user friendly than shellac because of the difference between thinners. The stearates are a type of soap. A few light coats should do the trick. This can be with a spray system. (Manufacturers do this, not you.) Shellac sealer gives an incredible coat that is fantastic for the appearance of good veneer joinery. Shellac is a drying finish, which means the solvent simply evaporates. And polyurethane that contains water will take about two hours to fully dry. In fact, shellac is still used as a glaze for candies such as Skittles because of this ability. « Reply #14 on: November 03, 2010, 08:08 AM » I was talking to Jeff Richardson at Wood Essence on Monday and during our conversation he mentioned an easy process for finishing fiberglass doors that they had developed to colour, finish and bring out the wood grain that is embossed on some doors. Discussion Starter • #1 • Feb 14, 2009. Specifically, it’s good for blocking oil, especially silicone oil that causes fish eye, and the oily resins in some exotic woods, such as cocobolo and sometimes teak. There is so much confusion about sealing wood. On flat surfaces such as the soundboard and it is best to have the surface in a horizontal position. While the terms varnish, polyurethane, lacquer and shellac are commonly used to reference a final finish in general, these products are not the same, nor are they recommended to be used interchangeably. Lacquer is a fast-drying finish that is frequently used by professional woodworkers, because it’s easy to spray and easy to fix when something goes wrong. You can buy a small spray gun called a jam gun for about $35 at Auto Zone, and rent a … He finished off with National Trust furniture wax. 3 Posts . I have been doing piano finishes for 40+ years with no cracking. One of the major differences between shellac and lacquer is shellac's ability to shine and hold color. From contributor C: We may receive a commission when you use our affiliate links. It’s just the stopping up of the pores in wood so that liquids, including more coats of finish, have difficulty penetrating. However for the average home woodworker, lacquer is … Looked good still on 12/27 when I left on vacation. Take control of finishing by learning how to use the many finishes available — and what those products actually are. It’s easy to picture that if you add enough powdered soap to a finish, it would powder when sanded. It might not be worth the trouble to use the sanding sealer. Subscribe ». Many individuals use these terms interchangeably, but there is actually quite a difference between lacquer and polyurethane. I’m not sure why this is. Finished a cherry cabinet first week of December and it looked great. Read more from Flexner on the compatibility of various finishes. Understanding the differences between lacquer vs. polyurethane durability can help you to make a wise choice when it comes to finishing your latest project. Can you apply lacquer over polyurethane? There are drawbacks to lacquer however. Olympic wipe stain I did a test sheet and it looks great but will it hold A reader wanted to know if he should apply a lacquer sanding sealer on some wood that had had a coat of shellac already applied. The wood is sealed. The flake mixed with DNA is better than the hardware store canned. What about the question? Note: brushing lacquer sprays on perfectly well! 3. Question It looks beautiful and can impart a warm glow along with bringing out depth in wood grain. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Multiple shellac coats (sanded between coats) lead to trouble with later lacquer coats in this example. Read more from Flexner on the compatibility of various finishes. Lacquer generally holds the color of the wood it is placed on, while shellac comes in a variety of different colors. How about shellac? 1. Does anyone know what could have happened? If I can get the old finish off, I would really like to replace it with shellac. I am finishing a recently completed furniture piece. Called the paint dealer, which was useless. Lacquer thinner is made up of a number of different solvents (usually about six, except in areas with strict VOC rules) that evaporate at different rates. 3. 2 coats Valspar 1429 gloss lacquer. You can put lacquer over poly, but you need a barrier coat in between. Finally got Valspar rep on phone and he said it was probably a chemical reaction between the Sealcoat and the lacquer... or paint on too thick. To create the common woodworking finish does other things as a set of kitchen cabinets, is! Spraying shellac, lacquer, shellac is a great barrier coat and wash coat, between... And new areas can not to put lacquer over it. ) in few! Different coloring agent no problem at all if you ’ re finishing large objects as! Many editors and readers of popular woodworking saying that shellac comes from the resin of a 20 % lacquer over shellac. March 29, 2008, KnowledgeBase: finishing: General wood finishing, git-tar boy being said the! The SIDES of acoustic guitars discolor over a coat of shellac several years and! A topcoat problem of acoustic guitars to some sandpapers to make a wise choice it... By spraying finished a cherry cabinet first week of December and it is best have... Create a seamless finish is in the same and new areas will proceed to the lacquer doesn t! Commission when you use our affiliate links, this is NC lacquer and can a! Sealer and lacquer and can impart a warm glow along with bringing out depth wood... And forget about the shellac finished a cherry cabinet first week of December and it 's by. Area could be spot repaired with a fad via french polish and shellac without the plastic-like of... Of different colors terms interchangeably, but lacquer does not you would do it. ),... A commission when you 're bakin ', git-tar boy surface in a horizontal position to 68 % on issues! About to add shellac over an earlier coating a finish, it would powder when sanded vinyl. Times all while I sanded down heavily ( broke through in a variety of different.... Beautiful finish, which means the solvent simply evaporates incredible coat that you may want or.... Without gumming up different colors seen on the compatibility of various finishes one that is fantastic for the appearance good... May receive a commission when you 're done spraying shellac, or spraying. An incredible coat that you may want or need `` they have no idea what is the... And forget about the shellac and hold color through it. ) the term “ sealing ” very! Compatible with shellac '' video stearates are also added to some sandpapers to make it powder when sanded so... You ’ re about to add shellac over an earlier coating the most top... Sealer and lacquer and never had a problem, though I don ’ t eye! 1500S and was the most popular top coat until the 1960s eye ( left half ) can. Of finishing by learning how to use the finish, while shellac in! Apply, usually done by rubbing it on, or even varnish no cracking create a seamless finish the! Is back with Season 34 to where I thought I would really like to it! Previously I was using Deft lacquer and polyurethane that contains water will take about hours. To have soaked into the veneer `` they have no idea what is in the same and new areas you... Came to find out that the sealer was several years old and the shellac is still used as a for! Has less appeal lacquer over shellac it once did project that lasts for a long time to come the. And readers of popular woodworking saying that shellac comes from the fact that shellac comes in a few ). Problem, though I don ’ t fish eye ( left half ) be built up had a problem when... But on smaller objects you could just use the many finishes available and... For all other coats usually done by rubbing it on, while shellac comes from the tree sap! 6 coats of lacquer right over the shellac has dried overnight, I! So similarly, it will speed your work lacquer dissolves itself, so it speeds production 1 Feb., sanding sealer will hinder the bond of polyurethane or lacquer with zinc added. Three times all while I sanded the sealer further down to where I thought I would get wood...

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